Adorable, or annoying? Or annoyingly adorable? Or adorably annoying?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 243 | August 9, 2022 12:25 AM |
This movie never made any fucking sense to me. I’ve watched it twice this year trying to figure it out.
| by Anonymous | reply 1 | July 25, 2022 11:34 PM |
This should have been my time to shine!
| by Anonymous | reply 2 | July 25, 2022 11:34 PM |
[quote] This movie never made any fucking sense to me. I’ve watched it twice this year trying to figure it out.
What's to figure out? Rich family in :St. Louis is told by the father they're moving to New York. Family is heartbroken. After the family's mentally disturbed youngest daughter has a psychotic breakdown the father changes his mind. They stay in St. Louis and the two oldest daughters, who are desperate to get married, both get fiances. And they all lived happily ever after. The End.
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | July 25, 2022 11:37 PM |
Lucille Bremer was so pretty (despite the horrible hairdo and dress), but you see why she never made it as a star. She could not hold the camera the way Garland could.
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | July 25, 2022 11:38 PM |
[quote] This movie never made any fucking sense to me. I’ve watched it twice this year trying to figure it out.
What’s hard to understand about “Flies in the buttermilk, shoo shoo shoo!”?
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | July 25, 2022 11:38 PM |
Please, someone invent premarital teenage sex--STAT!
| by Anonymous | reply 8 | July 25, 2022 11:46 PM |
This thread is making me happy to be ALIVE right now. I say A-FUCKING-DORABLE!
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | July 25, 2022 11:52 PM |
Tootie wouldn't have lived till her breakdown had I been around. A big house like that must've had a dozen hiding places for such a small frame.
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | July 25, 2022 11:53 PM |
I love the Kay Thompson arrangements - so 1944.
| by Anonymous | reply 11 | July 25, 2022 11:56 PM |
You can see why Agnes and Tootie weren't allowed to participate at first and were sent off to bed. It was getting really risqué there.
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | July 26, 2022 12:00 AM |
I love Meet Me in St. Louis, but that number is by far my least favorite. It's the "Sheboopi"of MMiSL.
| by Anonymous | reply 13 | July 26, 2022 12:02 AM |
I've watched parts of this movie, but I could never stomach watching the whole thing. I detest the character of Tootie. She's supposed to be so adorable, but she's a psycho, an annoying, crazy little brat.
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | July 26, 2022 12:16 AM |
Like candy. And just as good for you.
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | July 26, 2022 12:19 AM |
Are you confused because Tootie isn't on roller skates. Or black?
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | July 26, 2022 1:56 AM |
Oh how well I remember an old DL thread on this film and the discussion and arguments that went on an on for scores of posts about the little crocheted garment that Judy removes from her hair (wig) when she's singing "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" to that little brat. I think it all started when some deluded gay called it a "fascinator" of all things!
| by Anonymous | reply 18 | July 26, 2022 2:15 AM |
Mary Astor scored all the best costumes by allowing costume designer Irene Sharaff to finger her in fittings.
| by Anonymous | reply 19 | July 26, 2022 2:17 AM |
"And if you don't get home at all,
Your whore will understand!
Jewish partners, skip to my loo!
Jewish partners, skip to my loo!"
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | July 26, 2022 2:21 AM |
And two of its cast members are still with us: Margaret O'Brien and June Lockhart.
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | July 26, 2022 2:24 AM |
That was the whitest thing I ever did see!
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | July 26, 2022 2:30 AM |
R18, we know you are referring to Miss Garland’s snood.
OP, in contrast, “You and I” is my favorite from this classic.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 25 | July 26, 2022 2:30 AM |
LOL
I always think he's saying "Jewish partners" too.
| by Anonymous | reply 26 | July 26, 2022 2:32 AM |
r25, that is definitely not a snood though it is crocheted. A snood keeps back hair in place that is coming off the crown of the head. Judy's thingie is worn like a kerchief over the crown and seems to snap or hook under her chin.
| by Anonymous | reply 27 | July 26, 2022 2:36 AM |
It's a doily from the back of Papa's chair.
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | July 26, 2022 2:46 AM |
The "swingy" 1940s vocal arrangement is terrible.
Otherwise it is a perfect film.
They should have left in "Boys and Girls Like You and Me", of course.
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | July 26, 2022 3:02 AM |
Margaret O'Brien in the year 2022 being serenaded by a Judy impersonator.
There's a bizarre John Waters vibe going on here.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 32 | July 26, 2022 3:26 AM |
Except for “Skip to My Lou” , the insipid casting of both the boy next door and brother Lon and the Tootie character being a bit too much, I love almost everything in the movie:
- Judy’s charm, sparkle and radiant voice throughout
- Marjorie Main, Grandpa and Agnes are all real characters and lots of fun
- The title song’s so hummable and I also find R25’s favourite very moving
It’s a true classic American movie to me.
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | July 26, 2022 3:33 AM |
The interiors really do evoke a house. Your mind a can fill in the blanks and imagine the rest of the place. It feels very real.
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | July 26, 2022 3:39 AM |
I think the actor playing Lon is very handsome and does fine with his underwritten role.
I think the whole this is a masterpiece. The themes are explored through very skillful storytelling without ever being obvious plus the direction and camerawork is exquisite throughout.
| by Anonymous | reply 35 | July 26, 2022 3:41 AM |
Because of the war, r33, Sharaff couldn't get the imported lace she wanted for Mary Astor's dress at the end. They basically made their own lace by embroidering on net and using covered buttons for the grapes.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 36 | July 26, 2022 3:41 AM |
From 00:19 to 1:44 is a single camera shot. No cuts. To have that many dancers, the camera zooming in and out effortlessly. That requires a high level of skill.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | July 26, 2022 4:13 AM |
Trivia note: The singing voice of Leon Ames in "You and I" was dubbed by Arthur Freed, who was not only the producer of the film but also wrote the lyrics.
I agree that the swing arrangement of "Skip to My Lou" seems out of place in a film that's supposed to take place in 1903.
| by Anonymous | reply 38 | July 26, 2022 4:28 AM |
Aren't they afraid of an accident when skipping to their loo?
| by Anonymous | reply 39 | July 26, 2022 4:39 AM |
Lucille Bremer was Arthur Freed's mistress. That's why she kept getting cast in large roles despite having no screen presence. Looks and talent, yes, but star quality, no.
| by Anonymous | reply 41 | July 26, 2022 5:38 AM |
The whole movie is perfect.
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | July 26, 2022 9:07 AM |
I hate when the older sister comes home with ice cream and she’s carrying two small boxes like Chinese restaurant ice cream containers. Did they each get one spoonful?
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | July 26, 2022 9:24 AM |
^^that should read Chinese restaurant rice containers.
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | July 26, 2022 9:25 AM |
Annoying, but redeemed 300 percent by "The Trolley Song," "Meet Me in St. Louis," "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas," and, of course . . .
"The Boy Next Door."
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | July 26, 2022 10:15 AM |
[quote]It's the "Sheboopi"of MMiSL.
I like "Shipoopi" and I don't care who knows it!
I also like that Tootie is a psychopath.
| by Anonymous | reply 47 | July 26, 2022 10:21 AM |
[quote]the little crocheted garment that Judy removes from her hair (wig) when she's singing "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas"
It's a sparkly scarf, and it doesn't make sense because no woman wore anything like that, except maybe a few ladies who had "motoring bonnets" but they were made for daytime, and never sparkly or sequined. There were sequined shawls in the Edwardian era, but they were never worn on the head.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 48 | July 26, 2022 10:25 AM |
Lon Jr and John were doing it.
| by Anonymous | reply 49 | July 26, 2022 10:25 AM |
[quote]Margaret O'Brien in the year 2022 being serenaded by a Judy impersonator.
While wearing black shoes with a red dress. Does anyone have her address?
| by Anonymous | reply 50 | July 26, 2022 11:15 AM |
[quote] I like "Shipoopi" and I don't care who knows it!
What sort of monster could dislike Shipoopi ?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 52 | July 26, 2022 11:53 AM |
Once the flies are in the buttermilk, it's a little unsporting to expect them to shoo. Isn't it a bit late for that?
| by Anonymous | reply 53 | July 26, 2022 12:05 PM |
Supposedly, LB Mayer hated Mary Astor's costumes and didn't care that they were more authentic to the 1903 period than any of the other ladies' costumes in the film. He was not a Sharff fan though Arthur Freed loved her work.
I'm fascinated by many of the details of Judy's costumes. How interesting that Sharaff chose to put her in black, hardly a youthful color, in The Trolley Song....but I suppose with all those colors on everyone else swirling around her, it helped to give her focus. Also, interesting that she's the only lady on the trolley without a hat. Doesn't the lyric even mention her hat, as well her high starched collar and hair piled high upon her head, which she also doesn't sport?
But then in The Boy Next Door in her striped tennis outfit, the shiny celluloid collar and cuffs.....presumably authentic?
And who but Irene Sharaff would top off that blue Skip to My Lou dress with the ball fringe with an ascot of urine yellow? Believe it or not, that blue dress was worn by an extra in the film of Hello, Dolly!, also designed by Sharaff.
| by Anonymous | reply 54 | July 26, 2022 1:59 PM |
A jollier square dance song they should have added
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 55 | July 26, 2022 2:03 PM |
Who’s Lou?
Or maybe it’s a British song and it’s “skip to the loo”? Maybe skipping makes a person’s plumbing work faster?
| by Anonymous | reply 56 | July 26, 2022 2:04 PM |
The whole sequence makes my teeth hurt!
| by Anonymous | reply 57 | July 26, 2022 2:05 PM |
June Lockhart was in it. She’s 97 now. Fabulous.
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | July 26, 2022 2:08 PM |
I love the Halloween and Christmas scenes - kinda makes me feel like a kid again.
I thought the boy next door was hot. He was gay in real life, and when his star plummeted, he ended up selling used cars in the valley. So dire.
| by Anonymous | reply 59 | July 26, 2022 2:09 PM |
"Skip to My Lou" was a coded reference to the later, now current nickname among thuggees and hipsters for the old French town of Saint Louis.
Prophetic!
Vincente Minnelli is from the future and that's why Liza looks like an alien.
| by Anonymous | reply 60 | July 26, 2022 2:10 PM |
Hey guys! Can someone clever find and post Margaret O'Brien's appearance as the Mystery Guest on What's My Line? IIRC she 's surprisingly hilarious and would add much to this discussion - like what happened to O'Brien's career in the 1950s......
TIA!
| by Anonymous | reply 61 | July 26, 2022 2:12 PM |
Wholesome and sweet little ditty, Judy Garland makes it an American classic. :-)
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | July 26, 2022 2:17 PM |
This movie is the highest level most refined treacle, which is an oxymoron, because mostly it is also great entertainment and very artful. So many things are perfect. The production design alone I should despise yet it is ravishing.
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | July 26, 2022 2:20 PM |
Everyone says the boy next door was a used car salesman, but he was also a working tv actor. Maybe he couldn’t make a living at it, but he was in dozens of tv shows.
And we know he wasn’t gay because Judy didn’t try to marry him.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 64 | July 26, 2022 2:22 PM |
For anyone who asked upthread, "Lou" is a casual, Scottish dialect of "love". So it's "skip to my love, my darling". Its basically a social dance song about changing partners again & again.
| by Anonymous | reply 65 | July 26, 2022 2:36 PM |
You're right, r54! I follow Recycled Movie Costumes on Tumblr and they posted about that before. The dress now has faded so much it looks almost white, with stains.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 66 | July 26, 2022 2:45 PM |
[quote]Lucille Bremer was so pretty (despite the horrible hairdo and dress), but you see why she never made it as a star. She could not hold the camera the way Garland could.
Maybe, but she could hold onto a dick like nobody's business!
| by Anonymous | reply 67 | July 26, 2022 3:08 PM |
Lucile Bremer was really given her comeuppance a few years later in MGM's 'Til the Clouds Roll By, playing a young actress who is judged by Judy, playing Marilyn Miller, as not up to snuff after witnessing her performance.
And btw, Judy's number as Marilyn Miller in the same film is IMHO one of her most thrilling. Singing and dancing to "Who (Stole My Heart Away)? " and directed by husband Vincente Minnelli while she was already a few months pregnant with Liza, though he did not direct the rest of the film. That production number is a perfect example of MGM's musical expertise at its very best in every department.
| by Anonymous | reply 68 | July 26, 2022 3:18 PM |
One has to be a bit mental to not adore Tootie.
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | July 26, 2022 3:19 PM |
[Quote]Shirley Temple wrote in her 1988 autobiography that when aged twelve she was interviewed by Freed with a view to transferring her career to MGM. She wrote that during the interview, Freed unzipped his trousers and exposed himself to her.[8] "Being innocent of male anatomy, she responded by giggling, and he threw her out of his office", said the actress's obituary.[9] She also reported this on Larry King Live when interviewed on October 25, 1988, citing it as the reason she left MGM after only one film and returned to Fox.[10]
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | July 26, 2022 3:31 PM |
The older sister's boyfriend - the one who calls from Princeton or Yale or whatever - is so hot, you know the actor must have blown Minnelli or someone else to get that small part.
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | July 26, 2022 4:39 PM |
[quote]I thought the boy next door was hot. He was gay in real life, and when his star plummeted, he ended up selling used cars in the valley. So dire.
Tom Drake is in the audience for one episode of "The Judy Garland Show", and Judy calls him out and say really sweet things about him.
| by Anonymous | reply 72 | July 26, 2022 5:50 PM |
I have seen anything but clips of this. Anachronistic hair in these old "period" movies really bugs me and this is especially heinous hair snd who the fuck wouldn't go to NY from boring, insular St. Louise?
| by Anonymous | reply 73 | July 26, 2022 5:59 PM |
Tom Drake was the weak link of the film. He's fine, just nothing special. I suppose Van Johnson, who was being groomed for stardom at MGM as well at that time as boy next door type, was occupied on other projects.
Bremer always came off as a bit prissy in her MGM musicals. Works as the older sister in Meet Me in St. Louis, but I suspect Arthur Freed was viewing her as MGM musical/Freed unit answer to Rita Hayworth--dancing sexy redhead, but Bremer is no Hayworth.
| by Anonymous | reply 74 | July 26, 2022 6:00 PM |
Note that the actor playing Vincente Minnelli in "Me and My Shadows" (R31) is wearing heavy mascara as Minnelli indeed did.
Judy, you fool.
| by Anonymous | reply 75 | July 26, 2022 6:05 PM |
For R61, though I'm not that clever. Margaret's segment starts at 19:06 if you want to skip straight to that, but why not watch the whole episode? Peter Ustinov is on the panel so it's probably a good one.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 76 | July 26, 2022 6:16 PM |
[quote]I agree that the swing arrangement of "Skip to My Lou" seems out of place in a film that's supposed to take place in 1903.
Have you ever heard the singing style and the popular orchestrations from the early 1900s? You wouldn't have wanted that in this scene.
Even the uninhibited behavior of everyone probably would not have worked if you wanted to be true to 1903.
The film is an entertainment. It's not a documentary. Musicals are about suspending belief.
I think the orchestrations are perfect. Very 1944 but timeless enough.
I also loved how "Skip to My Lou" is so beautifully combined with "Turkey in the Straw" and "Yankee Doodle".
The number is brilliant. Artfully done.
| by Anonymous | reply 77 | July 26, 2022 6:24 PM |
You will hear the origins of the "Meet Me in St. Louis""Skip to My Lou" arrangement here:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 79 | July 26, 2022 7:03 PM |
[quote]What sort of monster could dislike Shipoopi ?
Whatever woke idiot rewrote the lyric for the current revival. Yes, someone did. The original is now considered offensive.
| by Anonymous | reply 80 | July 26, 2022 7:06 PM |
Well, r77!
Your nagging and bossiness certainly invoke 1903, but I imagine since you were around back then at least it's authentic!
| by Anonymous | reply 81 | July 26, 2022 7:06 PM |
R81 there is currently a thread on DL entitled "Why Does the American Population Have A Low IQ".
The thread's OP had you in mind when he posted it.
| by Anonymous | reply 82 | July 26, 2022 7:20 PM |
OMG! June Lockhart! Thanks to the posters who pointed this out. The second I read that name, my brain launched the "Lost in Space" theme song (wordless song?) on an endless loop in my head, and I've reverted to my/an endless childhood.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 83 | July 26, 2022 7:39 PM |
My personal favorite is "Under The Bamboo Tree," but I think it would be deemed racist today.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 84 | July 26, 2022 7:48 PM |
Judy wanted to perform "Under the Bamboo Tree" in blackface but Vincente talked her out of it.
| by Anonymous | reply 85 | July 26, 2022 10:57 PM |
[quote] Have you ever heard the singing style and the popular orchestrations from the early 1900s? You wouldn't have wanted that in this scene.
How do you know? r81 is right--you are a bossy little bitch.
Don't tell us what we would like and wouldn't like--you have no idea.
| by Anonymous | reply 87 | July 26, 2022 11:05 PM |
The actor who played Lon was certainly pretty, though a block of wood, and his career sank like a stone after MMISL. One wonders how he managed to land such a plum role to begin with. Perhaps he caught Mr. Minnelli's eye somewhere - any DLers have some dirt on him?
| by Anonymous | reply 88 | July 26, 2022 11:43 PM |
Given that the young actors working in Hollywood at time of Meet Me in St. Louis being filmed were 4F's who couldn't serve the pickings were slim which might explain casting of the actor who played Lon Jr. Just checked him up on imdb and he only made 10 films, most of them uncredited, before quitting (whether by choice or no more offers) in 1946 after doing a western at Republic.
| by Anonymous | reply 89 | July 26, 2022 11:53 PM |
{quote] Tom Drake is in the audience for one episode of "The Judy Garland Show", and Judy calls him out and say really sweet things about him.
I suppose she did. She ""dated" him during the filming of the movie. He was sympathetic towards her. Just another one of Judy's gay boyfriends. He was a big nothing as an actor; totally bland and uninteresting.
| by Anonymous | reply 90 | July 27, 2022 12:05 AM |
When Vincente Minnelli found out his wife was dating Tom Drake, he screamed at her "Stop trying to steal my tricks! You're as bad as Robert Wagner!"
| by Anonymous | reply 91 | July 27, 2022 12:11 AM |
What's the name of the actor who played Lon Jr.?
| by Anonymous | reply 92 | July 27, 2022 12:21 AM |
Any thoughts on why Margaret O'Brien's career stalled (for the most part) by the time she was 20? She didn't seem to go through an awkward stage. She's till quite pretty and seems like a barrel of fun in the WML clip in the mid-1950s.
| by Anonymous | reply 93 | July 27, 2022 12:23 AM |
R87 Actually I'm wrong: you would have certainly wanted the "Skip to My Lou" number done in authentic 1903 style.
That's how stupid you are.
| by Anonymous | reply 94 | July 27, 2022 12:25 AM |
Do the arrangements, melody, and singing style of the brilliant "The Trolley Song" sound remotely like anything from the beginning of the 20th century? Of course not. It sounds pure 1940s. As does, "The Boy Next Door" and "Merry Little Christmas".
The is the biggest selling song of 1903 by a female vocalist. This is what 1903 sounded like.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 95 | July 27, 2022 2:13 AM |
Has anyone ever noticed that someone shouts "Hi, Judy!" during The Trolley Song?
| by Anonymous | reply 96 | July 27, 2022 2:27 AM |
This film is an homage to cisgender Americana.
| by Anonymous | reply 98 | July 27, 2022 2:45 AM |
R96 Someone shouts "Hiya, Johhny" to John Truitt (Tom Drake) but I haven't heard anyone shouting "Hi, Judy!"
R79 Thanks for posting the video of "The Martins". I was going to post it myself. By the way, Martin and Blane are the two male singers/dancers in the video.
The film consists of two kind of numbers. Meet Me In St. Louis, Under The Bamboo Tree, and You And I (the song sung by the parents) are songs actually sung/performed in the situations in the film, by the characters. The Boy Next Door, Skip To My Lou, The Trolley Song, and Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas are the more unrealistic, "people bursting into song" book-musical type of numbers. The two styles coexist in the film. I'm not sure which kind of number Over The Banister (sung by Judy) is. It's an actual poem (by Ella Wheeler Wilcox) that was set to music by Martin And Blane.
By
| by Anonymous | reply 99 | July 27, 2022 2:47 AM |
The footage for the shot-but-edited-out "Boys and Girls Like You and Me" never surfaced, it must have been destroyed either on purpose or one of the studio vault fires. It was to have followed in a scene at the fairgrounds after "The Trolley Song" to have Esther and John's romance actually build and not be so sudden.
It's a Rodgers and Hammerstein song cut from "Oklahoma", then cut this film and subsequently cut from "Take Me Out to the Ball Game". It was just doomed, I guess.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 100 | July 27, 2022 3:06 AM |
r100: I am not surprised it was cut. Even though it's by Rogers and Hammerstein , it not quite as good as the Martin & Blaine songs for the rest of the film.
R&H were on surer footing with STATE FAIR the following year, where Jeanne Crain (dubbed by Luanne Hogan) introduces "It Might As Well Be Spring" staged exactly like Judy's "The Boy Next Door".
MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS inspired a number of copy-cat films: Fox's dreary and sluggish CENTENNIAL SUMMER (1947) with a decent Kern score but a dubbed cast including Crain again, Cornel Wilde (with a bad French accent) and luscious Linda Darnell.... and the negligible and forgotten ISN'T IT ROMANTIC? (1948) from Paramount with Veronica Lake, Mona Freeman and Pearl Bailey as a singing maid.
Here are Judy & Gene Kelly singing "All Through the Day" from CENTENNIAL SUMMER.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 101 | July 27, 2022 3:22 AM |
Boys and Girls.... was finally used in that 1990s stage version of State Fair, where it was given to John Davidson and Cathryn Crosby as the older parents. It's on the cast album and it's lovely.
| by Anonymous | reply 102 | July 27, 2022 3:33 AM |
This is my favorite recording.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 103 | July 27, 2022 3:43 AM |
[quote]Here are Judy & Gene Kelly singing "All Through the Day" from CENTENNIAL SUMMER.
I imagine this rehearsal recording was to see if the song would fit in the film "Summer Stock" which started in October of 1949. I don't think it's much of a song, certainly not as good as "Boys and Girls" which could easily have been added to the odds & ends song list in "Summer Stock".
| by Anonymous | reply 104 | July 27, 2022 3:51 AM |
R101 I thought this was sung by them at a Kern Tribute at the Hollywood Bowl. (Why would there be a full orchestra in a rehearsal recording?)
[quote]MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS inspired a number of copy-cat films
Also, On Moonlight Bay, and By The Light Of The Silvery Moon, with Doris Day. Leon Ames even played the father.
There was also an excellent all-star 1959 live TV version. I don't think there are any good-quality copies, and they're in b&w (the show was in color). Jane Powell played Esther, Tab Hunter was John Truett, the parents were Myrna Loy and Walter Pigeon. Jeanne Crain was Rose, Patty Duke was Tootie, Ed Wynn played the grandfather, Reta Shaw was the maid, and Lois Nettleton was Lucille Ballard.
| by Anonymous | reply 105 | July 27, 2022 5:04 AM |
Who is the actress wearing the hat?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 106 | July 27, 2022 6:02 AM |
[quote]Tom Drake was the weak link of the film. He's fine, just nothing special. I suppose Van Johnson, who was being groomed for stardom at MGM as well at that time as boy next door type, was occupied on other projects.
Van Johnson would have been awful in this, just awful. Drake is dull but he comes across as dependable and average, which is what the family, or at least everyone but the father, really wanted out of life. That's the whole plot of the movie. Van Johnson always seems "on" somehow, like he's putting on an act, and also like he's really tightly wound just under the surface. He has the wrong energy for this.
| by Anonymous | reply 108 | July 27, 2022 10:00 AM |
I know this is blasphemy here but both Judy and Liza are not attractive.
| by Anonymous | reply 109 | July 27, 2022 10:05 AM |
I did great work on this picture, but you bitches will agree my finest professional moment was storming off the set of Mommie Dearest because I could not work with that DRUG ADDICT!
| by Anonymous | reply 110 | July 27, 2022 10:37 AM |
Here’s the tv version r105 talks about. What’s My Line was pre-empted for this.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 112 | July 27, 2022 10:47 AM |
Choreography by Herbert Ross! Thanks r112, I'm going to download it to watch later, in case it disappears off of YT.
| by Anonymous | reply 113 | July 27, 2022 10:53 AM |
[quote]I know this is blasphemy here but both Judy and Liza are not attractive.
Lorna, shouldn't someone be molesting you about now?
| by Anonymous | reply 114 | July 27, 2022 11:17 AM |
[quote]Jane Powell played Esther
Powell was 30 at the time.
| by Anonymous | reply 115 | July 27, 2022 11:21 AM |
R34 made me laugh out loud.
| by Anonymous | reply 116 | July 27, 2022 12:44 PM |
R115 And Tab Hunter was 28, Jeanne Crain was 34. Myrna Loy was 54, and Walter Pigeon was 62. Much of the cast was older than the movie cast.
| by Anonymous | reply 117 | July 27, 2022 4:05 PM |
R116 I still don't understand what I was trying to say.
| by Anonymous | reply 118 | July 27, 2022 6:11 PM |
^"Boys and Girls..." is #13
| by Anonymous | reply 120 | July 27, 2022 6:42 PM |
That show didn't come alive until the lovely Susan Egan replaced the charmless Andrea McArdle. And they got rid of those damned tap dancing pigs. After that, the whole thing was so much better.
| by Anonymous | reply 121 | July 27, 2022 6:46 PM |
Andrea McArdle and Donna McKechnie were miscast in that State Fair.
Chorus girls loved having Scott Wise in a show because he was the only straight dancer.
| by Anonymous | reply 122 | July 27, 2022 6:48 PM |
I worked with Scott Wise in the early 1990s and was surprised and impressed when he requested pantyhose to wear under his trousers to enable his dance movements. True story!
| by Anonymous | reply 123 | July 27, 2022 9:40 PM |
[quote]he requested pantyhose to wear under his trousers to enable his dance movements
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! More like enable his perverted fetishes.
| by Anonymous | reply 124 | July 27, 2022 9:43 PM |
[quote]I thought this was sung by them at a Kern Tribute at the Hollywood Bowl. (Why would there be a full orchestra in a rehearsal recording?)
Aha! I bet you're right. I had no idea such a concert existed.
I thought perhaps it wasn't so much a rehearsal as a pre-recording for the film.
| by Anonymous | reply 125 | July 28, 2022 2:13 AM |
Just to chime in, do not get ANY idea that the Broadway production of "State Fair" was anything but a disaster!
It had a lousy book, a weird cast (Donna McKechnie and Scott Wise were good, the rest, oy) a too-small chorus and a community theater set, look, and feel. It was embarrassing.
| by Anonymous | reply 126 | July 28, 2022 2:24 AM |
State Fair was rough in its months on the road and the clips highlights above shows that. It had turned into quite a charming show by the time it reached NY but unfortunately it still hadn't hadn't replaced Andrea with Susan or gotten rid of the dancing pigs when it opened or got rid of some other rough elements. By the time it closed in NY it was charming and audiences adored all the great R&H tunes in a safer production. I saw the production again on the Saturday night before the Sunday closing and the audience went into the lobby literally singing It's A Grand Night for Singing at the intermission. Did it have a show doctor for New York?
At any rate, then it died.
| by Anonymous | reply 127 | July 28, 2022 3:26 AM |
R125 It's more clearly identified in another YouTube video. But the version you posted has much better quality/sound. In this one, Judy introduces the Centennial Summer medley.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 128 | July 28, 2022 5:29 AM |
[quote]This movie never made any fucking sense to me. I’ve watched it twice this year trying to figure it out.
It's "Meet Me in St. Louis," R1, not "Last Year at Marienbad."
| by Anonymous | reply 129 | July 28, 2022 6:01 AM |
R1 seems mentally challenged.
| by Anonymous | reply 130 | July 28, 2022 6:12 AM |
I have never heard the entire medley , r128. Thank you for posting it.
So unusual hearing Judy & Gene sing a non-MGM movie score. Makes one wish MGM had made the film.
| by Anonymous | reply 131 | July 28, 2022 9:12 AM |
R129 's response is one of the reasons I ❤️ the Datalounge.
| by Anonymous | reply 132 | July 28, 2022 11:00 PM |
If only Vincente Minnelli had made a musical out of "Last Year at Marienbad"...
| by Anonymous | reply 133 | July 28, 2022 11:13 PM |
MGM purchased film rights ton Jerome Kern's Broadway show "Very Warm for May" for Judy, but apparently nothing came of it and it was never developed.
| by Anonymous | reply 134 | July 29, 2022 12:26 AM |
"Very Warm for May" went through the wringer at MGM, and 1944's BROADWAY RHYTHM was very loosely based on the play, It starred George Murphy and LB Mayer's fave Ginny Simms, with guest appearances by Lena Horne, Hazel Scott, Nancy Walker. Only a few songs from the original show survived.
| by Anonymous | reply 135 | July 29, 2022 12:47 AM |
r134: MGM stuck "All The Things You Are:" from that score into BROADWAY RHYTHM (1944) where it was warbled by L.B. Mayer's then mistress Ginny Sims.
| by Anonymous | reply 136 | July 29, 2022 12:48 AM |
Ha! Great minds think alike, r135. You did, however, spell Simms correctly. I'm 'Oh, dearing " myself.
| by Anonymous | reply 137 | July 29, 2022 12:51 AM |
Was there tension at MGM between Simms and Bremer as both were taking the casting couch/mistress to a producer route to stardom?
| by Anonymous | reply 139 | July 29, 2022 12:57 AM |
In 1949 Mayer fell off a horse and was hospitalized; Sinatra cracked on a film set, 'He didn't fall off a horse. He fell off Ginny Simms.' Sinatra's MGM career was suddenly over.
| by Anonymous | reply 140 | July 29, 2022 3:07 AM |
Yep, Simms and LB and Bremer with Freed. Well known at the time but kept completely out of the contemporary press.
Meanwhile I just posted this in another thread:
When Minnelli asked Margaret O'Brien whether she could manage a real tear during Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas she allegedly asked him whether it should go all the way down or stop midway on her cheek.
| by Anonymous | reply 141 | July 29, 2022 3:17 AM |
Ginny & Miss Tops in Taps!
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 142 | July 29, 2022 3:56 AM |
It must be said, Ginny Simms was an excellent singer whose recording career and radio career had nothing to do with Louis B. Mayer and who only made one MGM movie, the aforementioned Broadway Rhythm. She was extremely popular with audiences and successful before ever having met Mayer.
| by Anonymous | reply 143 | July 29, 2022 4:26 AM |
Isn't Ginny Simms sitting in the front row with LB in that famous MGM Anniversary shot of all the contract stars? I always wondered about her film career as I don't think I've heard of any of her films.
| by Anonymous | reply 144 | July 29, 2022 12:00 PM |
r141, is there another current thread about Margaret O'Brien? Or LB Mayer??
| by Anonymous | reply 145 | July 29, 2022 12:01 PM |
R144 Ginny is sitting next to Lionel Barrymore in the 1943 group shot. L. B. Mayer is flanked by Katharine Hepburn and Greer Garson. Also in the front row is Margaret Sullavan, supposedly the only star Mayer was actually nervous around.
"She was the only player who outbullied Mayer", Eddie Mannix of MGM later said of Sullavan. "She gave him the willies".
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 146 | July 30, 2022 1:41 AM |
Margaret Sullavan was crazy, but she was also very intelligent and enormously talented., and she would stand up to bullies like L. B. Mayer. She was sort of like Judy Davis.
| by Anonymous | reply 147 | July 30, 2022 1:49 AM |
Meet Me in St. Louis is absolutely ravishing to see and hear, even though the songs make little sense in the story.
| by Anonymous | reply 148 | July 30, 2022 2:25 AM |
[quote]Meet Me in St. Louis is absolutely ravishing to see and hear, even though the songs make little sense in the story.
"The Boy Next Door" and "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" make little sense in the story?
| by Anonymous | reply 149 | July 30, 2022 4:49 AM |
I was watching the Tonight show years ago, when I was in high school. Barbara Walters was guest hosting. She had Gene Kelly on and I remember he said MMISL was his favorite movie musical. I thought that was interesting because it's not a dance musical.
| by Anonymous | reply 150 | July 30, 2022 1:38 PM |
[quote]flanked by Katharine Hepburn
Wearing white socks with sandals. Lucky for her she's already dead.
| by Anonymous | reply 152 | July 30, 2022 1:53 PM |
Hepburn wasn't exactly a walk in the park either!
| by Anonymous | reply 153 | July 30, 2022 1:56 PM |
And how kind of Hedy to take 15 minutes from her wifi research to pose for our little family portrait.
| by Anonymous | reply 154 | July 30, 2022 1:58 PM |
[quote]Margaret Sullavan was crazy, but she was also very intelligent and enormously talented., and she would stand up to bullies like L. B. Mayer.
Mayer wanted her to play the schoolteacher Andy Hardy gets a crush on, in one of the Hardy Family movies, and she supposedly said the only Hardy picture she'd want to be in was Death Comes To Andy Hardy.
| by Anonymous | reply 155 | July 30, 2022 2:01 PM |
Gurl this shit is too old and not relevant even for me.....
| by Anonymous | reply 156 | July 30, 2022 2:26 PM |
Your use of "Gurl" would indicate otherwise, r156.
| by Anonymous | reply 158 | July 30, 2022 3:25 PM |
[quote] Mayer wanted her to play the schoolteacher Andy Hardy gets a crush on, in one of the Hardy Family movies, and she supposedly said the only Hardy picture she'd want to be in was Death Comes To Andy Hardy.
I would have paid to see that had I been around then!
| by Anonymous | reply 159 | July 30, 2022 3:36 PM |
R159 I would have paid just to hear her say that to Mayer.
| by Anonymous | reply 160 | July 30, 2022 3:50 PM |
[quote]Gurl this shit is too old and not relevant even for me.....
How crushing for the rest of us who don't have your taste and sophistication.
| by Anonymous | reply 161 | July 30, 2022 5:47 PM |
The thing that remains true to this day about procuring talent and producing a movie is you're always guessing whether it will all gel, and that upon its release will be something the public will be interested enough to pay money to go see.
In that regard Mayer and his team of producers and creators can be considered extremely successful over a great many years, Hollywood years, that is.
Meet Me in St. Louis is a triumph, considering it is almost eighty years old and anyone is still aware of it at all, let alone have any familiarity with it. Think of the tiny percentage of films released in 1944 that the public could recognize and enjoy today.
| by Anonymous | reply 162 | July 30, 2022 11:20 PM |
[quote]"Skip to My Lou" from Meet Me in St. Louis
Aka, “say you’re a forum for homosexuals without saying you’re a forum for homosexuals.”
| by Anonymous | reply 163 | July 30, 2022 11:23 PM |
1944 wasn't a bad year for movies.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 164 | July 30, 2022 11:33 PM |
^But it wasn't a 1939 year by any stretch.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 165 | July 30, 2022 11:51 PM |
1933 is also frequently cited as a peak year for Hollywood films.
King Kong
Dinner at Eight
Footlight Parade
Cavalcade
She Done Him Wrong
Duck Soup
Flying Down to Rio
42nd Street
Little Women
Sons of the Desert
Baby Face
| by Anonymous | reply 166 | July 31, 2022 12:59 AM |
The Trolley Song is a song about romance on a trolley. It was written to serve Minnelli's idea about having a scene on a moving trolley. But it has little to do with Esther or the boy next door. Is it a song she knows, and she is actually singing? Who knows... It's a great song, beautifully shot and recorded, but it makes little sense in the story.
With my high starched-collar and my high-topped shoes And my hair piled high upon my head I went to lose a jolly hour on the trolley And lost my heart instead With his light brown derby and his bright green tie He was quite the handsomest of men I started to yen so I counted to ten Then I counted to ten again Clang, clang, clang went the trolley Ding, ding, ding went the bell Zing, zing, zing went my heart strings From the moment I saw him I fell Chug, chug, chug went the motor Bump, bump, bump went the brake Thump, thump, thump went my heart strings When he smiled I could feel the car shake He tipped his hat, and took a seat He said he hoped he hadn't stepped upon my feet He asked my name, I held my breath I couldn't speak because he scared me half to death Buzz, buzz, buzz went the buzzer Plop, plop, plop went the wheels Stop, stop, stop went my heart strings As he started to go then I started to know how it feels When the universe reels The day was bright, the air was sweet The smell of honeysuckle charmed you off your feet You tried to sing, but couldn't squeak In fact you loved him so you couldn't even speak Buzz, buzz, buzz went the buzzer Plop, plop, plop went the wheels Stop, stop, stop went my heart strings As he started to leave I took hold of his sleeve with my hand And as if it were planned He stayed on with me and it was grand just to stand With his hand holding mine to the end of the line
| by Anonymous | reply 167 | July 31, 2022 1:46 AM |
I have such mixed feelings about this movie. There are parts I just adore, like all of Judy Garland's solos (especially "O'er the Bannister, Leaning"), and the duet between the parents, and the very sweet Halloween sequence. And I love the final scene with the lights of the World's Fair lighting up.
But then there are the parts I genuinely hate, where Louis B. Mayer instructed the writers to ladle on the trademark MGM wholesome and treacley family entertainment. This would include the "Skip to My Lou" scene (I want to strangle Lucille Bremer when she cheesily mimes shooing away the fly), any of the scenes with Marjorie Main doing her corn-pone shtick, and especially the irritating scene near the beginning when Lucille Bremer is on the telephone to her boyfriend long-distance.
| by Anonymous | reply 168 | July 31, 2022 2:16 AM |
OP- The girls 👧 hair looks VERY 1940’s.
| by Anonymous | reply 169 | July 31, 2022 2:45 AM |
[r168]. Corn? I don’t remember eating corn?
| by Anonymous | reply 170 | July 31, 2022 3:02 AM |
R169 I love that phone scene, especially when Mary Astor gets up and pushes the window down so the neighbors won't hear Rose shouting on the phone. Every time I've seen it, the audience has laughed. I also love the staging of it, with each face able to be seen by the audience, and we can chose whose reaction to look at.
Actually there are no scenes or actors I dislike in the film.
People were talking earlier about the actor who played Lon (Jr.)...one day on TCM I saw him in a larger part, in some movie, and he was less bad. I was surprised, I thought he was fine in MMISL. It's true his part wasn't big in St. Louis but he was directed well and his scenes were well staged. An example of Minnelli's abilities. Not a lot has been said about him here but he's still one of the most underrated directors, I think.
| by Anonymous | reply 171 | July 31, 2022 3:05 AM |
I’m not a GAOH gay, but I genuinely enjoyed every moment of this movie. It’s just lovely and touching.
And the little girl is beyond adorable.
| by Anonymous | reply 174 | July 31, 2022 3:36 AM |
No not that one, this one:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 176 | July 31, 2022 3:43 AM |
That *is* that one, r176.
| by Anonymous | reply 177 | July 31, 2022 3:46 AM |
R178 I don't think Judy even bothered to sing that when she *played* Carnegie Hall.
| by Anonymous | reply 179 | July 31, 2022 4:12 AM |
Can anyone [;ease explain Jose Iturbi's presence in so many MGM musicals? Did he know something awful about LB Mayer?
| by Anonymous | reply 181 | July 31, 2022 4:44 AM |
They needed someone to pound the keys?
| by Anonymous | reply 182 | July 31, 2022 4:47 AM |
[quote]...and especially the irritating scene near the beginning when Lucille Bremer is on the telephone to her boyfriend long-distance.
You're nuts. That telephone scene is funny, charming and expertly staged and shot. If you're shooting a film about the bonds of familial love, especially a nostalgic one it is imperative you show everyone interacting, especially in a scene where the love interest has no privacy. Slyly mocking the technology of the era adds humor and conflict.
I'm not a film school grad, but I believe such scenes are solid storytelling blocks, and in MMiSL it's done entertainingly....if one isn't a savage.
| by Anonymous | reply 183 | July 31, 2022 4:51 AM |
r173: I LOVE "Presenting Lily Mars": Madcap Judy in Betty Hutton mode.
| by Anonymous | reply 184 | July 31, 2022 6:10 PM |
Too bad Betty couldn't get into Judy mode for Annie Get Your Gun, r184.
| by Anonymous | reply 185 | July 31, 2022 6:11 PM |
I don't remember Judy being all that "madcap" in Presenting Lily Mars. But I haven't seen it in a long time.
Jose Iturbi was mostly in Joe Pasternak musicals, which had the more schmaltzy classical or semi-classical music. There was also Danish tenor Lauritz Melchior, conductor Albert Coates, Columbian baritone Jose Ramirez - often in the same films as Jimmy Durante, June Allyson, Esther Williams, Van Johnson, etc.
| by Anonymous | reply 186 | July 31, 2022 6:59 PM |
Too bad Judy couldn't get into Judy mode for Annie Get Your Gun, [R185].
| by Anonymous | reply 187 | July 31, 2022 7:07 PM |
Too bad Leo The Lion didn't roar loud enough at the beginning of Annie Get Your Gun.
| by Anonymous | reply 188 | July 31, 2022 7:12 PM |
Too bad they didn't use real Native Americans in Annie Get Your Gun.
| by Anonymous | reply 189 | July 31, 2022 8:02 PM |
The fretwork separating the hall and the parlor looks shoddy.
| by Anonymous | reply 190 | July 31, 2022 8:19 PM |
Yes, R189, because otherwise Hollywood was very woke in 1950.
| by Anonymous | reply 192 | July 31, 2022 8:21 PM |
What an interesting piece of art we see on display by the staircase at 2:12.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 193 | July 31, 2022 8:31 PM |
Loving this thread and wishing we could do another one for my fave MGM musical GOOD NEWS. So much to discuss there!
| by Anonymous | reply 194 | July 31, 2022 9:25 PM |
I quite like the movie. It's enjoyable fluff. I sit back and let the sounds and images wash over me. It's not War and Peace. It's not Lawrence of Arabia. It's good natured fun. And it has Judy's lovely voice.
| by Anonymous | reply 195 | July 31, 2022 9:28 PM |
The people in this thread must have a lot of time on their hands
| by Anonymous | reply 196 | July 31, 2022 9:40 PM |
[quote]Lucille Bremer was so pretty (despite the horrible hairdo and dress), but you see why she never made it as a star. She could not hold the camera the way Garland could.
To be fair, cameras were really heavy in those days.
| by Anonymous | reply 197 | July 31, 2022 9:42 PM |
And yet, r196, here you are.
| by Anonymous | reply 198 | July 31, 2022 9:57 PM |
That's a pointless putdown, r196, when you're reading it all.
| by Anonymous | reply 199 | July 31, 2022 10:00 PM |
[quote]To be fair, cameras were really heavy in those days.
And Momma did a LOT Of speed.
| by Anonymous | reply 200 | July 31, 2022 10:16 PM |
[quote]The people in this thread must have a lot of time on their hands .
As must you.
| by Anonymous | reply 201 | July 31, 2022 11:44 PM |
[quote]The people in this thread must have a lot of time on their hands
Yes, because the rest of Datalounge is literally people saving babies' lives and securing a better planet!
| by Anonymous | reply 202 | August 1, 2022 5:53 PM |
Years ago I read that some of the music arrangements, particularly Skip to my Lou, were deliberately done in a then-current 1940s style, to appeal to the audiences of the day.
| by Anonymous | reply 203 | August 1, 2022 10:46 PM |
Of course, r203, but that was hardly exclusive to Meet Me in St. Louis. All Hollywood period musicals were orchestrated with a contemporary sound to appeal to modern audiences, not unlike the ladies' hair and makeup had to appeal to the modern eye.
| by Anonymous | reply 204 | August 2, 2022 1:33 AM |
Hello, Dolly doesn't have time-appropriate music, either, but nobody complains about it.
| by Anonymous | reply 205 | August 2, 2022 1:05 PM |
The worst offender for inappropriate music is "The Greatest Showman." Especially since they were portraying real people, not fictional characters.
| by Anonymous | reply 206 | August 2, 2022 2:28 PM |
Mama fell asleep on the loo, and never woke up.
| by Anonymous | reply 207 | August 5, 2022 1:34 AM |
Gorgeous TECHNICOLOR, bitches!
| by Anonymous | reply 208 | August 5, 2022 2:14 AM |
"Time, tide and trolley wait for no man"!
| by Anonymous | reply 209 | August 5, 2022 2:17 AM |
MGM preserved their original Technicolor negatives and the current restored results are glorious. Fox destroyed theirs in the early '70s to save money and their old color films, which were some of the best, are are preserved only in late generation safety prints and now look second rate.
| by Anonymous | reply 210 | August 5, 2022 2:24 AM |
Meet Me in St. Louis really demonstrates how a good script can make all the difference. The next year Minnelli made Yolanda and the Thief. Great production values, but awful script and lackluster songs. Bremer is saddled with an impossible character to play, and even if she had strong star quality/screen presence, she would not have been able to make much of the role of Yolanda, despite all the efforts to glamourize her and show off her dancing ability with Fred Astaire.
| by Anonymous | reply 211 | August 5, 2022 11:54 AM |
Well, in her defense, it isn't easy playing a thief.
| by Anonymous | reply 212 | August 5, 2022 11:56 AM |
R212 I don't get the joke.
R211 I really don't think the success of MMISL was because it had a good script, vs, Yolanda. For one thing, Lucille Bremer (who was talented, a good dancer, and attractive) wasn't able to carry a movie. I like LB but she was not going to carry a movie that was kind of dumb and overly fanciful and campy to begin with. It was the sort of thing maybe Rita Hayworth could have made a hit, just on her popularity. The song, Coffee Time, from that movie, was a hit, though. Even Natalie Cole did a remake much later.
I'm sure the script was part of it, but Minnelli put everything he had in to MMISL. He based the atmosphere and look of it on what he remembered of his own Midwestern childhood. For example, he had MGM build that whole neighborhood for the film. What was later known as the St. Louis Street, or Midwestern Street - built over original studio objections. The studio wanted him to film on the Andy Hardy Street (aka New England Street), which I think had originally been built in the 1930s.
MMISL became MGM's biggest money maker for many years (not counting GWTW, which was only released by MGM).
| by Anonymous | reply 213 | August 6, 2022 1:29 PM |
*Also, of course, MMISL headlined Judy Garland, who was a big box office attraction at the the time. Granted, Yolanda had Fred Astaire, but he was not at the peak of his popularity at the time and even retired for a while not long afterwards.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 214 | August 6, 2022 1:33 PM |
MMiSL ran on pure nostalgia. It’s “Americana” in its highest form, “family, apple pie and baseball.”
I think it’s also helped by changing seasons. We see kids at Halloween and Christmas festivities.
The only conflict in the movie is the family leaving St. Louis. It’s introduced in the beginning and then fades into the background, surfacing once in awhile until the end comes and the father suddenly says “I’ve been with this company for years. I’ll work it out.” It would have been daring if the movie pulled a “The Cherry Orchard” and their entire world came crashing down, but they weren’t about to disrupt the nostalgia for such a bold theme.
But there is zero conflict. Nobody fears the daughters dating bad men or that their morals might be corrupted. Nobody seems to be bothered that Tootie is a psychopath - I’m surprised that the dummy on the train tracks story was allowed in because it seems really cringeworthy. All of the idea of conflict is smothered by the Americana nostalgia.
| by Anonymous | reply 215 | August 7, 2022 1:54 PM |
R215 It's a slice of life, or a year in the life, type of story. Like Little Women, but even lighter because no one dies. And it's a musical, so how much conflict do you expect? It's supposed to make you feel good. I don't think it's all that nostalgic, it's just recreating an earlier time pretty well. Obviously there are some dramatic scenes, such as when Tootie goes around destroying the snow people. It's not all sweetness and light. That's actually why it's good, because Minnelli always has an edge in most of his movies, under the surface.
| by Anonymous | reply 216 | August 7, 2022 2:12 PM |
Lots of musicals have major conflict: Show Boat, Carousel, Oklahoma.
| by Anonymous | reply 217 | August 7, 2022 2:20 PM |
R217 I guess I don't thinbk major conflict would improve Meet Me In St. Louis.
| by Anonymous | reply 218 | August 7, 2022 2:23 PM |
*think. I always hit that post button by mistake, too soon.
| by Anonymous | reply 219 | August 7, 2022 2:24 PM |
Wouldn’t Tootie being dragged off to jail with a “Women in Prison” scene improve the movie?
How about Mother, Rose and Katie going to visit the prison? Many of the inmates seem to recognize Katie? Rose gets abducted by a crazed lesbian inmate and the prison goes into lockdown.
Esther goes to the prison to entertain the inmates, dragging along a reluctant Agnes. Their “Under The Bamboo Tree” doesn’t entertain and Agnes is traumatized when the inmates start pelting them with tampons.
| by Anonymous | reply 220 | August 7, 2022 2:36 PM |
R220 That sounds good, especially if John Truitt joins a biker gang and instead of a trolly song, Esther leads the bikers in a rousing number, Vroom Vroom Vroom Went The Harley.
| by Anonymous | reply 221 | August 7, 2022 2:41 PM |
[quote]All of the idea of conflict is smothered by the Americana nostalgia.
Yes, indeed. And that's what makes it wonderful.
And why it was one of the highest grossing films during the brutal era of a world war.
And why it is regarded as one of the very best film musicals of all time.
| by Anonymous | reply 222 | August 7, 2022 3:03 PM |
[quote]Lots of musicals have major conflict: Show Boat, Carousel, Oklahoma.
"Meet Me in St Louis" is small, intimate and heartwarming. It has no pretensions.
It is absurd to compare it to the very grand Show Boat, Carousel and Oklahoma.
| by Anonymous | reply 223 | August 7, 2022 3:12 PM |
There are a lot of movie musicals with no big dramatic conflicts. The Astaire-Rogers musicals, Singin' In The Rain, The Band Wagon, KIss Me, Kate, The Barkleys Of Broadway, Summer Stock, etc.
| by Anonymous | reply 224 | August 7, 2022 3:26 PM |
[quote]MMiSL ran on pure nostalgia. It’s “Americana” in its highest form, “family, apple pie and baseball.” I think it’s also helped by changing seasons. We see kids at Halloween and Christmas festivities.
It also helped that it was released during World War II, when nostalgia for simpler times and family and apple pie was a powerful lure. The movie is set in 1904, but "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" is very much a World War II song. The dark undertone of the original lyrics (lightened somewhat in later years) expressed the emotions of the many American families that had sons off fighting the war, sons they feared they might never see again.
| by Anonymous | reply 225 | August 7, 2022 6:17 PM |
[quote][R212] I don't get the joke.
Seriously R213? Try to keep up, it gets complicated. Here we go.
Instead of playing Yolanda, she played the Fred Astaire part.
| by Anonymous | reply 226 | August 7, 2022 9:09 PM |
The original lyrics were so depressing that Judy refused to sing them. She was backed up by both Minnelli and Freed, who ordered Martin and Blane to come up with something lighter.
Have yourself a merry little Christmas
Pop that champagne cork
Next year we will all be living in New York.
Have yourself a merry little Christmas
It may be our last
Next year we will all be living in the past
When Sinatra recorded the song in the 1950s, he asked for even more changes.
| by Anonymous | reply 227 | August 7, 2022 9:33 PM |
I always miss “Until then, we’ll have to muddle through somehow” which was replaced at Sinatra’s request with “Hang a shining star upon the highest bough” which is sweet but removes a bit of melancholia from the sentiment.
Very few singers use the “muddle through somehow ” and most opt for “the highest bough.”
| by Anonymous | reply 228 | August 7, 2022 10:51 PM |
Here’s an article about the song, though slightly simplistic for us cognoscenti
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 229 | August 7, 2022 11:06 PM |
[quote] Here’s an article about the song, though slightly simplistic for us cognoscenti
Smell YOU, Mary!
| by Anonymous | reply 230 | August 7, 2022 11:44 PM |
Rude for no reason, r230.
Thanks for the link, r229.
| by Anonymous | reply 231 | August 8, 2022 12:26 AM |
There are sacred lyrics by Hugh Martin (who I believe became a born-again Christian) and John Fricke.:
"Have Yourself A Blessed Little Christmas"
Christmas Future is far away Christmas Past is past Christmas Present is here today Bringing joy that will last
Have yourself a blessed little Christmas Christ the King is born Let your voices ring upon this happy morn
Have yourself a blessed little Christmas Serenade the Earth Tell the world we celebrate the Savior's birth
Let us all proclaim the joyous tidings Voices raised on high Send this carol soaring up into the sky, This very merry blessed Christmas lullaby.
Let us gather to sing to Him And to bring to Him our praise Son of God and a Friend of all To the end of all our days
Sings hosannas, hymns, and hallelujahs As to Him we bow Make the music mighty as the heav’ns allow And have yourself a blessed little Christmas now.
| by Anonymous | reply 232 | August 8, 2022 3:50 PM |
[quote]Seriously [R213]? Try to keep up, it gets complicated. Here we go. Instead of playing Yolanda, she played the Fred Astaire part.
R226 Oh, okay. I did get it, then. I just didn't laugh.
| by Anonymous | reply 233 | August 8, 2022 5:45 PM |
The conflicts are all simple, yet deeply felt interpersonal conflicts about love, family, traditions, holidays, things everyone can easily relate to. I don't think that makes them less meaningful.
It's a brilliant movie and I enjoy it now more than I did the first time I saw it.
| by Anonymous | reply 234 | August 8, 2022 6:43 PM |
[quote]I just didn't laugh.
Neither did anyone else, r233.
| by Anonymous | reply 235 | August 8, 2022 6:54 PM |
[quote]There are sacred lyrics by Hugh Martin (who I believe became a born-again Christian) and John Fricke
In interviews, Hugh Martin always seemed gayer than a tree full of chickadees. And yet he became a fundamentalist Christian?
| by Anonymous | reply 237 | August 8, 2022 7:01 PM |
[quote]Neither did anyone else,
That you know of, R235.
| by Anonymous | reply 238 | August 8, 2022 7:33 PM |
Though some of Yolanda and the Thief is amazing and Minnelli at his most brilliantly baroque it's a mess of a movie and also might have seemed slightly blasphemous to 40s audiences. It pretty much helped to sink Bremer's career at MGM. She's a good actress as one can see in Till the Clouds Roll by when she finds out she can't introduce Who? because Judy steals it from her! And when Walker comes to see her in that (very glamorous)dive after her performance with Van Johnson.
She is a fabulous dancer and is in three of my all time favorite movie musical numbers; This Heart of Mine, I Won't Dance and Coffee Time.
At least when Mayer and Freed took on mistresses they made sure they had real talent.
| by Anonymous | reply 239 | August 8, 2022 8:41 PM |
"Martin, a Seventh-day Adventist, spent much of the 1980s as an accompanist for gospel female vocalist Del Delker on her revival tours and in 2001 rewrote his most famous song (with the assistance of Garland biographer John Fricke) as a more specifically religious number, "Have Yourself A Blessed Little Christmas", which was recorded that year by Delker with the 86-year-old songwriter playing piano on the recording."
Per Wiki
| by Anonymous | reply 240 | August 8, 2022 9:05 PM |
R236 Amazing dance number in 5/4 time while the orchestra plays in 4/4 time. The choreography was by Eugene Loring. Loring can be seen in the Joan Crawford movie, Torch Song (1953) playing a choreographer, and in National Velvet, playing a jockey, Ivan Taski, who ends up not riding The Pie (Liz Taylor dresses as a boy and does it). fyi haha
| by Anonymous | reply 242 | August 9, 2022 12:24 AM |
*Lucille slips, at one point. The floor was not flat.
| by Anonymous | reply 243 | August 9, 2022 12:25 AM |
